真实的日本教父是谁（景德镇上的日本教父）

对话安田猛

大师

1943年生于东京

20岁在益子（Mashiko）初识陶艺

29岁移居英伦，名成于此

花甲之年与伉俪落脚景德镇

他一生足迹遍布东西方，

曾先后执教于挪威卑尔根国立艺术与设计学院、美国阿尔弗雷德大学、英国皇家艺术学院、中国杭州中国美术学院

他是安田猛（Takeshi Yasuda），

世界陶瓷艺术大师

他每一件瓷器只用青白釉。

这种釉，诞生于北宋的景德镇，俗称影青，釉料厚的地方会形成阴影，即使是光滑面也会有细微的美妙变化。

这种美妙，犹如水墨画中墨色的浓淡变化，

中国人心领神会，这位来自日本的老爷子也懂

青白釉经由他手，覆于胎上，

瓷器便像柔弱无骨的女子，在婀娜中光影万千

<< 滑动查看下一张图片 >>

安田猛是一位感官主义者，最喜欢触碰的感觉

而陶土为触觉而生，是最迷人的材料。

他追求陶瓷的柔软性，陶土在他手中开始流动。

他说，我总是先做出来，再想怎么使用。

陶土在他的手中，不拘于器型，每一件都是独一无二的。

我们瓷间少年有幸在陶溪川爬满爬山虎的红房子工作室中拜见大师，

一席对话，让我们对陶瓷艺术有了新的认识

Q

A

&

Q：瓷间少年实践团

A：安田猛

-我们得知您在19岁时接触陶瓷，那么您为什么选择陶瓷作为您的事业呢？

-高中毕业后，我去了艺术学校学习工业设计。一天我偶然知道了益子这个村庄，这是我第一次了解陶瓷制作并且深深地吸引了我。我认为这不仅仅是产品设计，因为这还包括制作。我在一个暑假来到了这个村庄并且对陶瓷产生了浓厚的兴趣。尽管我现在已经74岁了，我依然享受制作陶瓷的乐趣。

-我了解到当你做一个器具时，你会倒转正常的工序。例如你会先做碗身，再做适合它的碗座。你为什么这么做？起到什么效果？

-当我年轻的时候，那是十九世纪的六七十年代，像我们这样的年轻人都在谈及个性的重要性。我们在寻找一种新的、普遍的、基于史实的现代主义。

就我而言，这意味着你去寻找一些新的、与众不同的东西。所以我一直在想寻找新的表达方式，不停地体验不同的、自己喜欢的制作方式。最终，我意识到这些传统的工艺这么多年来只是提升它的经济效益。但我觉得工艺并不全是为了效益，尤其是对于个人艺术家而言。 所以我开始改变制造工序，以试图发现新的艺术之美。

-您的作品具有很浓的个人特色，您做陶瓷时会更自由、随意，但中国的陶瓷会更中规中矩。规规整整，您是怎样看待这个区别的呢？

-我认为中国的文化是世界上最好的文化之一。中国有先进的技术并且有悠久的陶瓷历史。还有众多的朝代与权力的交替，中国的善思或美学，都始终聚焦于人性。它代表了古典的造型、精湛的工艺和形式之美。我尊重中国艺术，但不代表我完全接受中国对于艺术的观念。

-你说这花了你很长的时间才认识到珍贵的并不是艺术，您的观念是怎么转变的？

-在二十世纪六七十年代，日本现代艺术教育刚刚萌芽。然后我慢慢地意识到珍贵的不仅仅是大师的作品，并且任何事物都可以成为艺术。现在，人们使用普通的材料来创造美，如塑料、橡胶等。并不是所有的人都把用金、银制成的东西视为美。因此艺术和珍贵没有多大关联。

-一部分人认为景德镇陶瓷缺乏创新而另一部分认为我们一个坚守传统，你怎么看待传统与创新之间的冲突？

-这必须要得出答案，做出改变是非常重要的，一些东西在过去是非常重要的，不过在现在看来已不再新奇。守旧是博物馆的工作，当今社会需要并且去适应。传统已经坚守了一千年，这是最重要的改变，所以我认为让好的继续传承是好的，但对于大多数人来说创造符合这个社会的新产品才是正事儿。

-我们了解到您在景德镇已经生活了十多年，景德镇也发生了很大的变化，您能和我们分享您的感受吗？

-我想这可能和你下一个关于传统的问题有关。传统是过去的美德，美德意味着好的东西。许多传统已经遗失了，但我们不知道。这意味着真正的传统是过去的我们所知道，所记得的美德。景德镇是一座千百年来独具特色的城市，它始于(唐)武德，然后是宋，元，明，清。正如你所看到的，这不仅仅是朝代的变化，还有令人惊奇的文化变化。传统有改变的能力，所以它可以生存。景德镇必须不断变化以适应文化变化、市场需求等。景德镇正在发生变化，现在的景德镇恢复了正常的工业状态。所以我很高兴看到今天的景德镇是一个充满活力和巨大变化的城市。这似乎吸引了许多年轻人来到这个小镇。政府也出台了很多政策去促进景德镇的发展。

-如今，景德镇是通过将文化与旅游相结合而不是宣传陶瓷本身而发展起来的，你怎么看？

-在现在，景德镇面临着改变与考验。许多年轻人来到这里，但就现在来说，看到变化是难的。不过具有创造新的事物正在发生。当你回头看，你开始看到一些性质的变化。然后你就会说：这是历史。当你在那时候，你会感受到变化带来的的兴奋。所以事实上，最具有创造力的时代，其实大多数人并不喜欢。所有人参与改变，这是确实，所以这是我如今的疑惑。

（向上滑动浏览）

采访英语原文

-We learn that you started to contact with ceramics at the age of 19,and why do you choose ceramics as your career at that time?

-After the high school,I went to art school to study industrial design,today is called good web design.One day I came across this pottery village and I saw making pottery at the first time and it’s really fascinating.And it’s rather than designing product since it’s actually designing and making.I went to this village in a summer holiday and developed a strong interest in making pottery.Now I’m 74 years old,but I still enjoy making pottery every day.

-We know that your works are with great personal characteristics,and you make pottery in a more free way while Chinese in a more regular way,what do you think of this differences between you and Chinese in making pottery?

-I think Chinese culture is one of the greatest cultures in the world and its technology is advanced and it has a long history about ceramics.Also great empire and power blend,Chinese well thinking or aesthetics,but all was always focused on humanity.So it represents classical shape,exquisite technique and precious beauty of formality.I respect Chinese art,but it doesn’t mean I fully accept Chinese opinions about art,and I couldn’t make like Chinese do.

-I learn that when you make bowls, you will reverse normal process, for instance, you will throw bowls first ,and then you make feet to suit that bowl. Why do you do so? Or in other word, what effect will it attain?

-You know when I was young ,that is a nineteen sixties and seventies.That’s the period young people like people like us talk to about the importance of personality.So we are looking for another kind of beauty that was general,historical.

As far as I’m concerned,It’s means you looking for something new ,something different.So I was always looking for new expression.So I constantly experimented different way of making which is different way you love.And eventually I realized those traditional way of making was just develop over many years to economize,production speeed.But I think that’s not all that speed,particularly individual artist.

You said you need expression,but that’s it showing new kind of future.So I begin to change the way made them.Ever since I was always exploraing,you will be making in order to discover new kind the beauty.

-You said that it took you long time to realize that preciousness is not art,preciousness is nothing to do artistry.And how do you change your mind about the relationships between preciousness and art.What happened?

-In nineteen sixties, seventies,Japanese art education was a baby suffer with the modernist approach.And I gradually realize that preciousness is not art.Preciousness is not only the masters’ works,everything can be art.Today,people use common materials creating beauty,such as plastic,rubber and so on.And not all people regard the thing made from gold,silver as beauty.So art is not only associated with preciousness.

-We know you have been here for more than a decade,and there are great changes in Jingdezhen,can you share your feeling about these changes?

-I think it’s probably just connected with your next question about tradition.Tradition is the virtue of the past,virtue means good things.There are lots of traditions having already lost. And we don't know. So that really means tradition is a virtue of the past we know,we do remember. Jingdezhen is a quite unique city which survive a thousand years.It started in (Tang)Wude,then Song,Yuan,Ming, Qing.And as you can see,this is not just change about dynasty. Amazing cultural change as well.Tradition has the ability to change,so it can survive.Jingdezhen must change constantly to adapt culture changes, market demands and so on.Jingdezhen is changing,now Jingdezhen come back to right state of industry. So I'm very pleased to see Jingdezhen today is a very energetic and it’s changing enormously. And it seems like to that attract many young people to this town. And it seems like the government is helping to do that.

-Some people would think the ceramics in Jingdezhen are lack of innovation while other people argue that we should maintain our tradition . how do you think of the contradiction between tradition and making innovations ?

-So it may only be answered. It's really very important to maintain energy of changes ，Just because something was important in the past, But is not recently amazing. That is the job for museums, the people who works. You have to experience. Today's society need. And adapt. Ok, that tradition maintain last one thousand years. That's the most important change. So, yes, I think it's a good idea to keep good tradition going. But for the people's job is to develop new product suit to this society.

-Nowadays, Jingdezhen is developed by combining its culture with tourism rather than publicizing the ceramics itself, how do you think so ?

-At the moment, Jingdezhen is faced to change and the trials. A lot of young people comes it is very difficult to see what is happening. But the most creative things happens time like that. When you look back, you begin to see some of characters of changes . And then you name. That that was the history.

And uh history was older. When you're uh, in that time, you can feel the excitement usually people had confuse. You don't know what's happening. And after things you don't like or things chaotic, you are annoying. So in fact, most creative time, most people don't like it. All the people participating changes. That's exactly. So that's my question about today.

文案|Qiq1

编辑|Qiq1

审核|张面条

翻译|Qiq1&张面条

摄影|璐酱

后期|璐酱&Nametough

关注我们

/换个角度看瓷器/

素材来源 | 瓷间少年实践团

集成编辑 | 柒月 栗子小

校审 | 扶林 恩杰 怡文

,